Rust interview bailed totally out of solar. Rust: I understand that. And I’m suggesting that we don’t need the federal government anymore, to bring this on, because the federal government isn’t going to help us anyway. And, anyone who looks to the Bonneville Power Administration (BPA) for an answer is barking up a tree. We will establish a pool of power that is separate from the Bonneville nuclear debt, which is going to take our energy costs just as high as any in the country by the end of this decade. I think it’s time to get out of My program is to make Oregon Insulated from federal fiscal policies as much as possible. We can create an independent kind of economy here in Oregon that naturally is integrated and relates to the rest of the national economy, but that strikes off on its own in very important ways. '< A ' 'v s A z \ s £> c s-s' the way, because those dinosaurs are going to fall anyway. Just producing the energy is only half the problem. The other half is creating the manufacturing industry, the computer industry, the photovoltaics ... we are going to have photo-voltaics on everybody’s roof within ten years. We’re going to have them manufactured in Eugene and Portland and Medford, and they’re going to be installed by little energy corporations. We’re going to see a day soon when we’re going to unplug from the big utilities. I want to create a Pacific Rim solar economy, renewable economy. I want us all together ... Japan, China, Korea ... in an integrated solar economy. Instead of exporting coal to Korea, so that it’s going to rain on us, acid rain, as soon as the wind comes our way, I think we should be sending them solar technology, and every home and business in Korea could be totally outfitted. And I’m convinced the barriers to solar power are not technological. They are financial and political. And that’s where I think the State of Oregon can step in here, invoke its powers, and put the State of Oregon in the power business, by loaning monies through the 11-D initiative that I helped sponsor this summer. CSQ: 11-D has been around a long time. Tell us about its history and how you mean to apply it. (Ed. note: 11-D, an amendment to the constitution, empowers the State of Oregon to raise and spend monies to develop electric generating facilities.) Rust: Well, it was put into the constitution, pre-Bonneville, by the farmers and grangers of this state, who wanted the natural resources to be developed for the benefit of the public, and not for the private monopolies. It was never implemented because the monopolies control the legislature, or have manipulated the process. It’s lain dormant in our constitution for 50 years, though it’s just as valid today as it was then. Now for people who are in privately served areas, I just have one question: Do you think it’s right that PP&L, which owns 10 percent of WPPSS 4 and 5, put that debt on the innocent ratepayers of that service area, or do you think the stockpayers ought to eat that debt themselves? There’s only one way to shed that debt, and that is to form a new Public Utility District (PUD) and let the stockholders have the bad debt. CSQ: In any buyout procedure, however, that very cost is going to be toted right on. Rust: It simply is not part of the ratepayers’ responsibility. The ratepayers can buy the transmission lines, and whatever generating facility they want, when they form their PUD. They don’t have to buy a dry hole with the deal. There’s no precedent for that. There’s no law requiring that. You buy out and start anew. I’ve seen light bulbs popping all over the state when I’ve said this. CSQ: Distinguish between yourself and Mr. Kulongoski. Tell me your perception of who he is and who he represents. Rust: He’s been an active politician in this state. He has close ties to organized labor. He’s clearly not in favor of the state bank. He has made a statement that new PUDs are not the issue, because it is now not public vs. private; they’re all corrupt, and it’s time the ratepayers got hostile to their utilities. And I’m not totally unsympathetic to that view, but I think after you say, “Let’s get hostile,” now you say, “Let’s get mobile; let’s talk about where the answers lie.” And I have taken a clear position with respect to public power. CSQ: Tell us about your links to labor. Rust: First of all, let’s understand where I’m coming out of. I’ve come out of a cooperative movement. I believe in worker-ownership wherever feasible and practical and wherever the workers want to do.it, wherever they can raise the capital to go it. So that’s my thrust. But I have been very close to organized labor. I have an extremely good record where organized labor is concerned. Now, I’ve crossed them on a couple of major items lately. One was on the garbage burner, which organized labor supported down the line, and Kulongoski supported down the line. I testified before him and his committee that this was a dioxinspewing mistake. But in general, I’ve fought for the right of people to organize. I consider myself a friend of labor. CSQ: Two or three words about our current governor. Rust: Status quo, lack of leadership, he’s out of touch with reality. He has maintained that there is a light in the tunnel, just like Reagan. He’s tied to Reaganomics. He’s at the opposite end of the political spectrum from myself. I’ve met him personally and he is a nice guy, but so what. I know a lot of nice guys. I think he’s too tied to the past. I don’t believe that he even realizes the severity of this depression we’re in in this state. Now the proposed garbage-burning plant here in Oregon City symbolizes Governor Atiyeh’s energy policy. Here a good idea, local government cooperating with industry to produce an economic benefit, has been so twisted that a serious health hazard will be inflicted on the people of this area, and a debt-ridden boondoggle will be the likely result. Unlike the WPPSS plants, we haven’t spent any money yet, we haven’t capitalized this venture. Now when people realize that this is like the WPPSS plants, this is a mini- WPPSS in the making, financially it’s a boondoggle, and it’s going to create severe public health problems, not only for this metropolitan area, but for the rest of the state as well. The wind blows down the Willamette Valley often, and we’re all going to be breathing this dioxin. Yes, it will produce some electricity. But at what cost? Would you want to produce energy if you knew you were going to harm future generations and cause genetic mutations because of the deadly poison that would be spewed into the atmosphere? We don’t need power produced in that fashion. CSQ: The entire solid waste problem is two or three years from being a glaring disaster here. What other solution do you have for solid waste at this point? Rust: I believe we need to have waste management and waste reduction programs. And this means not only recycling and source separation, but it means actually getting at the packaging industry. The Oregon Bottle Bill had a great and pioneering effect on reducing container kinds of refuse. Similarly, we should be limiting plastic containers, the other kinds of containers which end up in our landfills. Particularly plastic ... plastic is the one that causes this dioxin, as far as I can tell, and the other problems. One other thing. Atiyeh suggests we will bring the defense industry, the war industry, to Oregon, as one of the ways that we’ll bail out this state. I’m going to make this a big issue in this campaign, because one of the things that is wrecking the State of Oregon and the entire country; in fact, the whole world, is this arms race. This trillion-dollar national debt didn’t get there overnight. The reason it got there is because of our military buildup, and the Reagan Administration’s military buildup, and now Governor Atiyeh wants us to cash in on our quote fair share unquote of that military buildup. To me this is morally wrong; it needs to be repudiated by the people of this state. He gave a press conference last year bragging about sixteen new jobs down in that air force base out of Klamath Falls, which shows how desperate our governor is for some PR. Uris interview sion making in the various parts of city government? Uris: Generally, I think we need a City Council that’s elected by districts. Also, it’s absurd to put all your cards in the hands of the mayor, who can pull away and give bureaus at will. Look at the incredible betrayals that went down when Frank Ivancie yanked the police bureau away from Charles Jordan. And he did it for purely political reasons, I think. That was a very unfortunate thing, and we’re still feeling the effects of it, particularly in neighborhoods like Irvington and Albina, where a lot of poor people are suffering and see themselves as living in an occupied city. Another example is the Portland Development Commission. In the late 1950s, the PDC was created to deal with urban blight. But whole ethnic communities were destroyed. The lifestyle, the traditions, the morality of those communities were altered, absolutely, irrevocably. Such projects sometimes are necessary, but generally, they’re not. In recent years PDC has been more reluctant to enter into such projects. Yet, we still see the same kind of mistakes being made when monies are available. Look at i the Emanuel Hospital project. The black community has been moved in this town four or five times in its history, constantly at the whim of the power structure. And then, on top of that, you have some projects which are well intentioned, but really are not responsive. For example, because federal bucks were available, and because Union Avenue is a blighted area,, we created this project which was supposed to humanize Union Avenue. Well, anyone who lives around here knows that what’s happened is that the community has been split in half by Union Avenue now, much like Barbur Boulevard split Lair Hill/Corbett. And it was simply a project that, for all the improved community input and so on, from the very beginning was not really responsive nor carefully analytical of the needs of the community. CSQ: How should that process happen?, Uris: You need a Portland Development Commission whose members are elected, ideally by district, but certainly by the city as a whole. So that what we have now is a political process, where the mayor chooses his Sixteen new jobs in the war industry, and he holds a press conference. I say hogwash. CSQ: One more question. Do you believe it’s the role of the governor of this state, ora candidate for governor, to talk about international issues, be they El Salvador, South Africa, or whatever, and how do you stand on any one of these? Rust: I think if you look at what’s happening to our national and our state’s economy ... we’re tied into this national and international military picture. That is why we have this balance of payments problem. That is why we have high interest rates, and so it’s not only affecting us as a potential nuclear disaster, a war, a holocaust ... it’s immediately affecting our economy. When the American people realize that, and I think they are starting to realize that, that it’s a guns-and-butter type of issue, then we’re going to have to put an end to this arms race. I think it’s very appropriate for this subject to be spoken to in this governor’s campaign. I think what’s happening in El Salvador is a tragedy in the making; it’s another Vietnam in the making, there’s no question about it; and like John Donne said, anyone’s death diminishes me, because we’re all involved. We’ve got to recognize the responsibility. I think the governor of the state is in a key position with respect to these issues. If I could characterize what I’m going to be talking about in this campaign, it’s going to be peace and solar energy. They’re just linked right together. Solar is the technology of peace, nuclear energy is the technology of war, and we’ve gone down that path long enough. • buddies or the people he owes things to and they, in turn, owe things to other business corporations. Instead, what you need is people who owe things to the public, that are beholden to specific constituencies. I think that would be a hell of an improvement. Also, I think that you need to structure into the use of Housing and Community Development monies, still stronger neighborhood and individual processes so that the opportunities of individuals to speak are properly safeguarded. And that those funds should be channeled into small and diverse corporate development, rather than hunting up corporations like Wacker, which is a German corporation. In order to get Wacker, we hurt a lot of locally based firms. I think that what we need to do is have as many small firms as we can. Now, I’m not saying, for example, that we should hurt the Port of Portland — I think that would be stupid. I think trade is a very healthy thing; we need to encourage it. But we also need to be aware of the indigenous, relatively politically powerless small businessmen, who take it on the chin every time we make major decisions in planning or in urban development. Those people need to be protected more thoroughly. And I think that if you have elected officials, who are beholden to the whole community, you’re going to get a little more protection. CSQ: In the same vein, let’s talk about the police review process. Uris: First of all, you don’t have any real civilian review process in the city. Right now, it’s being proposed and there probably will be a very mild and weak citizen review procedure of police complaints. But I think that you need a fully empowered, preferably elected, body who oversees police behavior and police activities. Police policies set by the city council should be much more strongly directive. The police department should not be seen as a para-military bureaucracy. I think that’s nonsense. The police are fundamentally people who are here to serve the public, and they should be people of the public; they should live in the communities in which they are serving. I don’t think it’s constitutional to make them come out of Irvington if they work there, but I think it is perfectly legal to require all new, or future, officers to come out of Port- (Continued on next page) 6 Clinton St. Quarterly
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