these millet varieties and the growing conditions required, would take years for western scientists to figure out. So this knowledge base should be incorporated into the transitional system. RAIN: How can this rich knowledge base become part of the transitional process? DAVID: In my particular field of interest, wildlife management, the transition that I believe needs to come about is based on the cultural traditions and wisdom of the villagers. Throughout most of these African countries, game reserves and national parks are being set up as a place for western tourists on photo-taking safaris. I think that game parks are going to have to serve as productive food producing systems as well. The whole cultural system of traditional villages is based upon management of the wildlife in many ways. There is cultural knowledge of various characteristics of the indigenous animals and a taboo system which applies to just about every aspect of game. There are even taboos on how often an elephant may be killed. Therefore, one of the transitional aspects needs to be a new approach to natural resource management, building on these traditional practices regarding the indigenous wildlife. RAIN: What insights may be gained from traditional African fanning systems that can address the current needs of food, fuel, forest and wildlife preservation? MARK: In tenns of the field crop production or the production of food grains, I like to use Wes Jackson's idea that describes how nature is oriented towards the production of polycultures that are perennials, while western agriculture has been oriented towards the production of annuals in monocultures. Monoculture has been the focus of most of the agricultural experiments and research over the past 20 years, but traditional African farming systems were based on polyculture perennials. It integrated a variety of trees and plants to meet the villagers' multiple needs of food, medicines, fibre, fodder, and fuel. In the case of the nitrogen-fixing tree, acacia albida, the nuts are eaten by animals, the wood is very valuable for firewood, and one can plant crops around the tree. We need to look at what these specific traditional technologies were and how they can be adapted to a more intensive and sustainable type of agriculture. I don't think that we can have the iUusion that traditional agriculture is necessarily the most productive, but I think it can teach many valuable lessons in our efforts to realize a Page 13 RAIN Dec. 82/Jan. 83 sustainable agriculture. DAVID: There is also polyculture in animal production as well. There is definitely an ecological role for a cow, a zebra, or an elephant. It must be seen as part of the multicropping system, using both traditional and domesticated animals. RAIN: Are governmental agencies, donors, and nongovernmental organizations receptive to the pennaculture ideas? And are they introducing them by building upon the traditions of villagers? MARK: This idea of pennaculture or agrisilviculture is very new. It is going to take a while before the concept and the practice begin to filter down among government, donor, and non-governmental organizations (NGOs). This is just a little spark. I don't know if the spark has set the forest on fire yet. There are certain agencies that have the foresight and the vision to begin testing. The key is going to be to publicize what is working and what is not. Can these preliminary efforts, in one part of the world, be relevant to another? We have to keep in mind the social, economic, and ecological constraints of each situation. RAIN: Are the lessons gained from the initial work in development and pennaculture being shared so we can build on each other's efforts? DAVID: There is a great communication gap, particularly when it comes to successes. There are so many agencies, NGOs and levels of government involved in practical efforts that a lot of what happens in the field is not reported, or it is lost altogether. MARK: Even within one's own agency, it is often extremely difficult to get a hold of infonnation. We are not doing a very good job of sharing infonnation, especially mistakes. Agencies don't like to publicize their project weaknesses, but it is a valuable learning process for each of us. So this, of course is why RAIN and similar publicatons are so important. The question is: how do you get this infonnation disseminated to those involved in development, especially to the practitioners? RAIN: Do you believe there is hope of actually establishing sustainable forestry and wildlife management systems given current conditions and trends in West Africa? MARK: I think that if you are a practitioner, you really don't think about it. If you struggle with the question of whether or not there is hope, I think you'll become very, very discouraged. Rather, you take encouragement in the little victories that appear every day. You realize that time is running outand that you've gotto try your hardest. DAVID: Given certain conditions, change can come about very quickly. Twenty years ago there weren't paved roads or schools in many of the villages I passed through in my travels, which illustrates that things have changed rapidly. We have to keep a historical perspective in mind. Yes, there is a lot that has to be done, but a lot has already been done. MARK: I think that if you sit back and contemplate the enormity of what has to be done, and you see the insane growth of the anns race, you can be discouraged. We don't have the luxury of getting discouraged. We don't have the luxury of being cynical. Not at all! Certainly as Americans we have been given tremendous opportunities of education, power, wealth, the possibilities for affecting change. I don't believe we can sit back and philosophize about whether or not there is hope. That is doomsday politics. We must get on with the work that needs to be done.o o
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