Page 14 RAIN If people wanted to apply themselves to this same issue, how could they help? Well, until we are able to open our fund to the general public, instead of just to institutions and wealthy individuals, we urge students, faculty, and religious groups to first learn a lot more about money, money management and investment, so that they can organize within their institutions and knowledgeably advocate alternative investment strategy. We've got to build a well informed constituency around economic issues. Today, most students organizing around divestment issues can barely distinguish between an investment and a grant. When they finally sit down with the trustees of their institution by dint of their hard work and the trustees say, "What do we do?", the faculty and students have little or nothing to offer. So first we've got to become more knowledgeable in a field most of us find disagreeable. We suggest that divestment organizers contact us or similar groups for practical input into their proposals for alternative investment strategies. How are you working to try to make the internal process of your organization consistent with the message about economic democracy that you are communicating to the world? Internal inconsistencies abound; we're no exception. We're deeply committed to democratic structures, but there are few models. There certainly are no formulas. I think, however, that the 1980s will see more cross-fertilization between different cultures as we struggle with these questions. There are cultures where one finds a traditional emphasis on sharing, cooperation and the stewardship of natural resources. Thanksgiving is a part of daily life. Our modern culture is one of entrepreneurship where everything is oriented to individual initiative and success. The positive feature of our culture is the high degree of ingenuity and our orientation towards results. It is my fondest hope that over time we'll find ways to weave these positive cultural attributes together. Such a synthesis could be called "copreneurship," that is, the best of entrepreneurship mixed with the best of cooperativism. That, I think, could be exciting. In any event, it's important for us to realize how much Third World people have to teach us. The Mayan and other Native American cultures, for example, have much to tell us about sharing and the stewardship of natural resources. We've got a lot of work to do, however. There are few cooperative entities which effectively adhere to high social and business standards. We want to change the system, not compensate for a screwed-up system. What do you think are the pitfalls in this particular line of work for change that you're devoted to? The built-in pitfall is the assumption that money is the answer. It's too easy to forget that money is not central to the important social and political jobs ahead. Material concerns distract us from finding ways to work together effectively as cooperatives or as communities. How can the individual subsume his or her agenda under that of the community's? Or, much better, not subsume it, and make ~t fit? In the democratization of wealth, which is our goal, we have to place emphasis not on the wealth, but on the democracy or political aspect of the proposition. How do you make a community work? How do you make a co-op work? That's the tough part. If you don't really live in the awareness of that, then you're caught in a trap. The other problem that we have-particularly our generationis our lack of realism and discipline. We don't realize how difficult it is to build a more just society and so tend to get frustrated and apathetic. We jump around a lot as we search for new and more rewarding causes. Our contribution to community development is not often enhanced with long experience and competence. We don't demand enough of ourselves. Material concerns distract us from finding ways to work together effectively as cooperatives or as communities. What keeps you going? What makes it possible for you to work so hard without becoming discouraged? First, personal growth makes it possible. I have the privilege of working with people who are teaching me a great deal. You can't imagine how lucky I feel-and am. Second, the experience of solidarity-friendships over so many thousands of miles with so many other "copreneurs" around.the country and even the world makes it possible. Third, I live in a shared household which includes our two children. Our home is a tremendous source of love and support; I'd be a basket case without it. And then I suppose there are the few little victories, a few breakthroughs. They're little tiny drops in the bucket, but they' re sensational rewards! Another motivating force in me is anger. Occasionally I recall, for example, images of what I saw in El Salvador or Nicaragua: the brutality of the large land owners and the generals in their service; the cynicism and despair; the hunger. That's a very powerful, albeit intermittent, force in me. When I get lazy and start sloughing off, it's often angerthat reminds me of what I should be doing. What would you want most to tell someone who's just getting involved in social change? Beware of nonsense, beginning with the stuff we generate ourselves. In part, I'm talking about the problem of dishonesty. That's something I'm particularly aware of myself-especially as a fundraiser. It's easy to lie to myself and to others. Honesty has got to be something we get better at-one of the good parts of the "me" and transactional stuff that's popular today. The other thing is discipline. Perhaps starting with my generation I find a serious lack of discipline-not being able to hang on to one thing for long enough, to improve with self-criticism, to learn from our mistakes, and, above all, to listen to others and take criticism. This is a serious problem that Americans have in general, especially the younger generations. We're a people of talkers, not listeners. We've got to learn to listen.
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