Jan./Feb. 1984 RAIN Page 7 illiteracy, freedom from illness. This relates to their whole history of being mauled century after century by outsiders as well as by their own leaders. There's been a transformation within the country since the Second World War. At the end of the war, the ethic was self-sacrifice; everyone was expected to do without for the good of the motherland. Now all that's been changed into something like self-improvement, into producing more, into improving the standard of life—more color TVs and so on. People are producing food in Russia for private profit on plots owned by the state. They get a greater yield per hectare. There's not a simple dichotomy between capitalism and socialism. RAIN: What impressions did you pick up about their views of American culture? Schatz: When it comes to peace, they can't imagine how we can have a world at peace unless such basic needs as food, medical care, literacy, and employment are first satisfied. Russians seemed aghast at the behavior of the U.S. They view us as the wealthiest country in the world. They can't understand why we have so much surplus and overlook the poorest members of our society. They quote figures quite accurately: three million homeless in the U.S.; 10 to 12 million out of work; millions without medical care. I don't think that what they're doing there is so much a function of Marxism as it's a long-standing motivation for survival and lifting themselves out of the fields. RAIN: Have plans for the peace poster changed since your trip? Schatz: Well, we've put some additional things on it. We put a space bridge on, and we've got a lot of high- tech communication symbolism— particularly linking First and Third World—to speed up the flow of quality information to places that need it the most. This peace poster is based mostly on the perceptions of Americans. The next peace poster will be a composite of American and Soviet images of peace, with more Third World connections built into it, since most of the global population is living in poverty. There seems to be a real competitive thing going on between Ronnie and Yuri when it comes to the Third World. We want to address that. A lot of things made sense to us, having spent three weeks there, in terms of [Soviet] attitudes toward Third World countries. There's a tremendous identification with people who are trying to redistribute wealth. They look at something like the arms race and say openly: "We can be accused of a lot of things, but at least we're not fueling the arms race to make gigantic profits for certain individuals." That's one difference between the motivation to build more weapons between the two cultures. I think Mr. Reagan has it wrong, calling these people evil; I would prefer to call them frightened. RAIN: Does this fit in with their desire to communicate with us? Schatz: Yes, but they're also very interested in the U.S. They need a lot of input to do what they want to do now: build a consumer society. We saw Walkmans on the street, kids with "ghetto blasters" playing Pink Floyd in public, the influence of Western clothing style. "'We ought to be the last people in the solar system to want to discourage communication with anybody." They want everything we've got—like the re^t of the planet seems to want. They're wanting to make those rewards possible but not by sacrificing people on the low end. The entire culture is integrating and coping with a history of abuse. I would say the biggest lesson we received from our visit was the need to study more of the history of the Soviet Union, to understand where they're coming from today, that [the Soviet system] isn't some diabolical plot to squash planetary consciousness. RAIN: What are you working on, now that you've returned from the Soviet Union? Schatz: We're creating interest in space bridges in Seattle and Portland. I would like to hook schools in both countries—have kids work on collaborative projects. I'm working on a project with a school near Portland to
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