Genesis and do a better job than the original creation did. CSQ: Still, you’re asking for a tremendous change. You’re talking about cities of 100,000 people. You’d have to lead seven million New Yorkers out of New York City. Rockefeller Center and all the huge office buildings would stand empty. That’s an enormous movement of people and philosophy. That is almost like what went on in Cambodia. JR: What we need to do is take a look now while we still can, before this tremendous crisis and catastrophe occurs, and look at a reasonable, humane approach to make the transition. There are a lot of people that say, “Well, we should just give up the big cities,” or, “Let every worker fend for themselves.” I don’t agree with that philosophy. I think we need to make a transition to decentralized, self-sufficient economies, but in doing so, we have to mitigate the suffering in the transition period of millions of American workers. I would like to see the remaining base of nonrenewable resources used to buffer that transition, to develop built-in safeguards for re-employment opportunities, built-in safeguards to guarantee income. There are many people who say, “Well, let’s just abandon the old industrial project and go on from there.” Well, that’s a very cavalier way of looking at peoples’ everyday experiences in the world. We can’t afford that because if we are talking about a nuturing approach to the age of biology, then the process by which we get there should be somewhat nuturing as well, and I think that when you talk about nuturing and stewardship on the one hand and allow ourselves to be insensitive to the transition and think, well, it’s just the way it goes. It’s just not compatible. CSQ: Without a cataclysmic event how are we going to make this revolutionary change? iw a Riva Rsva RAW Riwa RA^ Winter 1982-1983 The Finest in Contemporary Visual & Performing Art Performances Jamey Hampton & Friends January 7 & 8 Chandler Poling January 13 Ping Chong & The Fiji Company January 17 & 18 Jon Gibson February 1 Spiderwoman Theatre February 12 Charlie Vernon Company February 23 Exhibitions Donald Lipski Through January 12 Richard Posner/Philip Zimmerman Through January 16 The Ed Cauduro Collection: Recent Acquisitions’ Opening January 20 Vitaly Komar & Aleksandr Melamid Opening January 25 Portland Center for the Visual Arts 117 N.W. Fifth Avenue Portland, Oregon 222-7107 Gallery hours 12 to 5, Tuesday through Sunday. Performance series tickets are available at a discount. JR: I think the first thing we need to do is to have a complete change in our world view, our conceptual framework. That’s why I wrote Entropy. Those first two laws of thermodynamics illustrate a different way of conceptualizing reality. They’re just anthropomorphic examples of our experiencing in the world, these two laws, but they turn everything upside down in terms of how we frame our ideas about what the world is about, and they do so in a way much more compatible with common sense and our own day-to-day experience. We need to replace the whole mechanical world view of Descartes, Bacon, Locke, Newton and Smith with a new world view that’s congenial with our experience of our relationship to the larger organism, the planet. Yes, it is a revolution that goes far beyond the state revolutions. Because we’re talking about changing 300 years of the mechanical world. That’s not going to be an easy battle. I think it is first and foremost a conceptual battle we’re talking about here. Second, we need action as well. I don’t think conceptual change by itself will mean much. I would encourage a green movement for the United States of America. There is a growing group of ecofeminists emerging out of the women’s movement. There is the stewardship movement emerging within the Christian community. There is, of course, the burgeoning environmental community. There is also a community involved in appropriate technology, working to develop self-reliant lifestyles. What we need now is some kind of green movement, long term, that can bring this into political focus. Now, I didn’t say a green party; I said a green movement. And how it will manifest itself politically is an open question, but there needs to be some form of green movement in the United States just like we’re seeing in Europe. 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